old belgian gun makers

Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Colette Victor It was mandatory post-1924. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Thank you Jerry. Bernimolin & Cap Antique Pistols and Handguns for Sale | Collectors Firearms The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Boden Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Thanks. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. 1840-1860. Britte Frres Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. 1840-1860. 4 0 obj Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Again, thank you On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Does it reach the touch hole? The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Thank y'all again! Consignment Sale Information. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. It's complete. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . It is located just above the circle with ELG. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Can you send me some, Ed? I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. or E.C. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Identification on a Belgian Liege musket, real or repro? Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Designates rifled barrel. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. There are a number of ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum Clment Charles Philibert Sorry I can't be more helpful. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. and an eagles head. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Closset Louis - Remy Hubert The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. The "D.D. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Double Take: Gorgeous Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns - Field & Stream is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). These Gun Markings - OldGuns.net Wish I could be more helpful! Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. Project Upland. Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Arnold Mathias Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. These include the Four barrel . Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Beckers G. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. 1860-1870. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Chartier If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". I recently decided to clean it up. significance or purpose. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Serial Numbers. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Chaumont M.J. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Thanks Brandon. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your How do I price this piece? The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Arendt Maurice To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Serial Numbers. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. GWO, good condition. Any idea how to date it? thank you. this location now so you can return often. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Any help would be appreciated. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. . Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? HI, John. Jun 21, 2012. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. In addition to If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Search. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Braekers Charles & Cie The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying Marlin-Savage-Winchester Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Thanks Hause. Dallas, Donald. Closset Louis U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. Comblain - Dorther Hubert Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. British gunmakers of the 21st century - The Field The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Rich engraved. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Bronne Gustave Colard Louis - Counet Lonard The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Any idea what it all means? Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. the 20th century. Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Collard Henri - Roux Jacques The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Baker, David J. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. I know the bottom image. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. After years of looking at and trying We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Closset J.M. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. 1860-1870. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM

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