6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

* DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. NonStop-Transmission. How quickly time passes by. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. Powertrain Expo 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. Gears Magazine Application RWD & 4WD / AWD That is just the beginning. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. Thought's? : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. The TCM-2600/2650 is used to enable the use of the GM 6l50e, 6L80E, 6l90E, 6T70E and 6T75 E transmissions behind practically any engine. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. Shift the transmission to Reverse. 10L80 Transmission. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. Do you think that I might pick up a few more hundredths if I switch the lock on say when I hit second? Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. Account. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. Eighth 0.85 Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. Copyright 2012 That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Im thinking 3.73. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. Wait 2 seconds. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. See how the ratios have swapped places? During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. yr=d.getFullYear(); 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. 1. The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. 4. Pre-Owned. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. Stock capacity . In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. Reply. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. Thought's? Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Tenth 0.64 TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. We are High Performance Transmission Builders All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Gm hydro 10 speed. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. It looks nearly identical to the 6L90. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. It is a dog in the summer time. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. TIPM Problems! this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Exceptional torque rating. All rights reserved. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. Its good for a 12.69 @ 111 mph in cool dry weather.I go down the track with the lock up switch off. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. if (yr!=2012) Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. Fifth 1.52 Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. By Wayne Colonna. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? $ 158.00 Select options. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). All Rights Reserved. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. Im with you on AFM is crap. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Shift the transmission to Drive. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Applications. The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. Your car is quick! Most of us have either seen or heard of the new 10-speed transmission Ford is offing behind the 2.3L EcoBoost, 2.7L V6, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L gas, and 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel engines. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. Production Began 2017 The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. should check for clearance. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P.